CheckMoteur

I was just hit by a thought like: talking about car equipped with ABS, what is the proper way braking you think?

it will be terribly WRONG if you thought, in order to shorten the distance of braking, you'd better FORCE the ABS to be functioning, even if the condition wouldn't necessarily cause so.

sorry to ask stupid question like this, sounds like treat people as idiot, but, if this is already a common sense, you would tell immediately, some guy’s TEST we've been talking about here doesn't make any sense at all.

ABS is built to deal with bad situation(wheels locked) and can be used only to save the situation a little bit,  like avoiding to hit something just, or hitting in 30km/h instead of 60. comparing stop distance with ABS functioning , with that without so(wheels turning normally), just like compare running speed of disabled person with some sort of mechanical aiding system, with normal one. you force ABS to be functioning, you've already made the bad situation, you just can't compare it with a normal one no more.

always stop a car like this, even the car equipped with ABS:

A. try always your best to NOT cause ABS to be functioning.
B. if you couldn‘t and the ABS is already  functioning anyhow, FLOOR your brake pedal, focus on steering, and pray. never ever try to let go of the pedal, NEVER!

confidence is really important, but, if the confidence is built on the base of some sort fo mistake, it would be better to lose it.:wink:

CheckMoteur

you can try using DIANSHA as a good way to avoid using ABS, but not an alternative when ABS is working, any alternative you found will make things worse then.

my point of view, you can not actually USE ABS. it's something that out of your control at all. and you should try not using it, by grabbing the contorl of the car before you get there.

裴立波.

Post by CheckMoteur;3203098
I was just hit by a thought like: talking about car equipped with ABS, what is the proper way braking you think?

it will be terribly WRONG if you thought, in order to shorten the distance of braking, you'd better FORCE the ABS to be founctioning, even if the condition wouldn't necessarily cause so.

sorry to ask stupid question like this, sounds like treat people as idiot, but, if this is already a common sense, you would tell immediately, some guy’s TEST we've been talking about here doesn't make any sense at all.

ABS is built to deal with bad situation(wheels locked) and can be used only to save the situation a little bit, like avoiding to hit something just, or hitting in 30km/h instead of 60. comparing stop distance with ABS founctioning , with that without so(wheels turning normally), just like compare running speed of disabled person with some sort of mechanical aiding system, with normal one. you force ABS to be founctioning, you've already made the bad situation, you just can't compare it with a normal one no more.

always stop a car like this, even the car equipped with ABS:

A. try always your best to NOT cause ABS to be founctioning.
B. if you couldn‘t and the ABS is already founctioning anyhow, FLOOR your brake pedal, focus on steering, and pray. never ever try to let go of the pedal, NEVER!

confidence is really important, but, if the confidence is built on the base of some sort fo mistake, it would be better to lose it.:wink:

不知道是不是你写的还是网上转载的，看着有些费劲。希望这些话里没有讥讽的意思。

我可能就是你文中所说的做TEST的some guy(s)之一，不过如同上面讲的--try always your best to NOT cause ABS to be founctioning--我做的试验正是这种情形，第一次故意触发ABS，并且FLOOR my brake pedal, focus on steering--but I DIDN"T PRAY, 记录下车子停稳后的位置标志，第二次在刹车感觉ABS启动马上松刹车之后再踩--如此反复直至停稳，记录位置标志。得到的结果是ABS的距离长些，如果这个结果doesn't make any sense at all的话，我的车子真的是比较特殊。

如果我的结果does make sense 的话，你上次在路口停不住的情况是否就可避免了呢？

裴立波.

Post by CheckMoteur;3203121
you can try using DIANSHA as a good way to avoid using ABS, but not an alternative when ABS is working, any alternative you found will make things worse then.

my point of view, you can not actually USE ABS. it's something that out of your control at all. and you should try not using it, by grabbing the contorl of the car before you get there.

真的是看不明白，如果你现在没法敲中文建议你直接写拼音，这样避免误会。

我无法回帖了，在这回复你：
2：44你说--

I'm working (though actually doing nothing, dead season). I check post on my iphone and reply via company computer, no Chinese support, that's why, sorry about that.

I don't think you really got me. I'm not saying here HOW you made ABS working was wrong, but the LOGIC which you were using to reach your conclusion. when you forced ABS founctioning, the wheels were already locked, the stop distance would be OF COURSE longer on the same road condition, than didn’t. ABS save the situation a bit, but not by much, even better than wheel-locking not happening at all.

the key is, IF THE ROAD CONDITION WAS NOT NECESSARILY CAUSING WHEELS LOCKING, YOU CAN STOP YOUR CAR NORMALLY ANYWAY, YOU DID THE TEST FOR NOTHING. you were actually comparing the stop distance between wheels locked and not lokced, but not when wheels locked, w/ ABS VS. w/o ABS.

I'm no badass here, just try to tell you don't let go of pedal and try DIANSHA when ABS kicked in on public road, it's rather dangerous. do feel no confident at this point, please!:wink:

这句话不正确--when you forced ABS founctioning, the wheels were already locked,the stop distance would be OF COURSE longer on the same road condition, than didn’t.

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CheckMoteur

I'm working (though actually doing nothing, dead season). I check post on my iphone and reply via company computer, no Chinese support, that's why, sorry about that.

I don't think you really got me. I'm not saying here HOW you made ABS working was wrong, but the LOGIC which you were using to reach your conclusion. when you forced ABS founctioning, the wheels were already locked, the stop distance would be OF COURSE longer on the same road condition, than didn’t. ABS save the situation a bit, but not by much, even better than wheel-locking not happening at all.

the key is, IF THE ROAD CONDITION WAS NOT NECESSARILY CAUSING WHEELS LOCKING, YOU CAN STOP YOUR CAR NORMALLY ANYWAY, YOU DID THE TEST FOR NOTHING. you were actually comparing the stop distance between wheels locked and not lokced, but not when wheels locked, w/ ABS VS. w/o ABS.

I'm no badass here, just try to tell you don't let go of pedal and try DIANSHA when ABS kicked in on public road, it's rather dangerous. do feel no confident at this point, please!:wink:

CheckMoteur

哪敢有什么嘲讽。上面就是随便发了两句言，人都把电话打过来了，呵呵。

我的意思应该是表达清楚了，有不同看法不同理解也是正常的，没必要再说什么。

下午倒是认真想了一下，翻了翻电路图，其实大多数车辆上的abs泵，都是通过机舱保险盒那个中继器接地的，拔掉就可以让abs不工作，而其他如轮速测量，乃至dash上的打滑警示灯，还都正常工作，真的不难（没有真的干过，可能导致问题，所以并不十分确定）。所以裴老兄那个实验，其实是可以就用一辆车进行的。但是如何设定条件，才能保证测量对比的真是轮胎抱死之后，有abs和没有abs的差异，而不是有abs的轮胎抱死，和轮胎没有抱死的差异，我就想不清楚了。前面也说过，这个我也外行。

发完这个，我今天的发言权也用光了。给自己那个不幸转到车品买卖的小帖，做个顺水广告吧。诸位不要见怪，呵呵。;)

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marsjulien

Post by 裴立波.;3203072
您说的没错，行车安全是首要的。我刚才说的也是真实的感受--对自己的行车技能越来越没信心了。

前面有网友以专业的角度介绍过：

对此我不敢怀疑，因为我当初也是这么做的，可是看了别的热心网友提供的视频后，曾经意识到自己是误解了，可是现在是越发糊涂了。或许真该象CheckMoteur说的那样--交给上帝了。

这是一段视频，里面也介绍了冰面打滑traction control启动和关闭时的状况
[video]http://youtu.be/ZD8krFh8IL4[/video]

不用客气的，我也顺便在这学习学习。关于ABS，我通过一次经历对安全带和ABS有了认识。那时还很年轻，开车和人斗气，在北京三环上把车开到140，在一个上坡突然发现前面有辆车，只能紧急踩刹车，但没有转向。结果追尾。我的车损失惨重。但多亏我带了安全带，所以我一点事也没有。根据警察说，我没有轻易转向是正确的，车辆没有打滑侧翻。ABS也起到作用。当时我在桥上，如果侧翻的话，我可能就掉下去了，绝对车毁人亡。警察说我这么严重的事故，人没事是万幸了。所以，我很信任ABS系统，并且坚持上车先系上安全带。但什么系统都不如谨慎慢行重要。

CheckMoteur

我对刹不住车转向避让这一点一直持保留态度。这第一不那么practical，是违反本能的一个动作，不练不容易做到，练了也有“到厮打时忘了拳法”之虞，第二可能引发更坏的后果。

上面老兄说那个是一个好例。高速度，特殊路况，急刹车+转向有导致车体失控甚至侧翻的危险，危害远比正面撞击为高。

我浮泛的印象就是这样，被动安全方面，家用汽车，防正面撞击危害的效果总是最好的。

即便不是那么高的速度，在高速上转向避让，恰好别的线上也有车的话，后果无法预知。跟隔离物、路沟之类亲密接触，往往也比撞前车更糟。前车也在往前走啊，就算完全静止，也是有轮子容易移动的物体。把它撞跑了，反馈到你撞击能量就少些。钢混结构的隔离物，乃至仁厚的大地，就不是了。

城区道路路况更复杂多变，更不好讲。搞不好来个对头车相撞，那可是成倍翻番的撞击能量。

我觉得唯一需要你不计代价也要转向避让的，只有行人了。高里说人命无价，低里说沾上这个你倒霉不起。总之是宁可后果更糟，也要竭尽全力避让。也有避让路上行人冲上人行道，还是出了人命事故的例子。真的很难说。

总之我的看法，正面撞击至少是可预知的。真打了方向，接下来的只好问上帝。大多数情况下，不打方向是上策。

前面也说了，我相信abs之类有效，但永远不会“用”它，反而是竭力避免用到它。我自己开车的时候，多数只把这东西当一种警告装置。路面状况不佳，abs频频触发，这是告诉你车轮抓地不好，应立即调整车速和刹车力度。调整到什么程度呢，调整到不触发或不那么频繁为止。就是这样。

有时对车轮抓地实在没有把握，甚至可以在适宜的情况下，有意狠带一脚刹车，看abs起不起作用，帮助判断。

冰雪路面，预判非常重要。但老实说，个人感觉，所谓预判多数情况下并不是一种单纯的理性思考，你看到某些状况，在脑子里套公式，得出结论，不完全是这样的。这样很多时候已经晚了。我觉得这毋宁说是思考和经验累积出来的下意识反应的一种混合。

我自己常用的一个方法，比如前方100米停牌，路况极易触发abs，我会用小而均匀的力度带上刹车，同时盯住路面，看准抓地状况较好的区块，比如没有冰雪，或冰雪较少之类，加大刹车力度，再回到轻带刹车的状态。基本上大力刹车那几下，车辆前冲动能的大部分杀掉了，轻带刹车去掉剩余的部分，到停牌时，也就不会打滑，触发abs之类。

长带刹车保持刹车灯常亮，对后车也是很好的警示，有助于保持与后车车距。

没问过别人，相信大多数人也就是这样做的吧。

我是因为干这行的关系，总跟玩车的人接触，从前年轻的时候，自己也感兴趣，搞过一点drifting之类的，可不敢说是专家，扔了这些年，现在或者连amateur的级别都没有，但是对于控车，至少有些概念了。最低限度，大体可以做到随时监控四个轮子的抓地状况，和车辆行驶时，车体重心的变化。能做到这个，对日常行车，特别防冰雪路打滑，打滑后怎么处理，帮助真的很大。但我真的怀疑类似经历的可复制性。我是这样过来的，有这个东西在身上，别人就得照样来过才可以吗？

老司机，脚下几十万里程，从没玩过drifting之类，车控得比我好的多了去了。可见真的未必。但也提示出练习的重要性。如果你真的concern，车开出去，找片开阔地玩几把，比做什么实验有用。

真没有嘲讽的意思，对某些老兄的实践精神也深表钦佩，我反正是自愧不如。只是在另外一方面，这种实验很难做到严谨，其结果更会误导，引发某种危险，也是需要指出的。

这边好像也有类似的教程，advanced driving之类，是通过练习drifting之类，增进控车技能的。取法乎上，仅得乎中。你并不会因此成为漂移高手，也足够应付日常行车的种种意外了。关于这些教程我只有一个印象，具体怎么回事并不清楚。感兴趣的朋友可到google上搜一下。

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裴立波.

Post by CheckMoteur;3203154
I'm working (though actually doing nothing, dead season). I check post on my iphone and reply via company computer, no Chinese support, that's why, sorry about that.

I don't think you really got me. I'm not saying here HOW you made ABS working was wrong, but the LOGIC which you were using to reach your conclusion. when you forced ABS founctioning, the wheels were already locked, the stop distance would be OF COURSE longer on the same road condition, than didn’t. ABS save the situation a bit, but not by much, even better than wheel-locking not happening at all.

the key is, IF THE ROAD CONDITION WAS NOT NECESSARILY CAUSING WHEELS LOCKING, YOU CAN STOP YOUR CAR NORMALLY ANYWAY, YOU DID THE TEST FOR NOTHING. you were actually comparing the stop distance between wheels locked and not lokced, but not when wheels locked, w/ ABS VS. w/o ABS.

I'm no badass here, just try to tell you don't let go of pedal and try DIANSHA when ABS kicked in on public road, it's rather dangerous. do feel no confident at this point, please!:wink:

由于英文水平有限，我对你的这些话理解起来有些困难，你现在可以用中文解释一下我是否理解有误？

你写的--when you forced ABS founctioning, the wheels were already locked, the stop distance would be OF COURSE longer on the same road condition, than didn’t. 这句话我认为不正确，因为即使我强行触发ABS工作，车轮抱死也仅限于开始的那一瞬间，之后在ABS的作用下车轮就不会再抱死。

CheckMoteur

Post by 裴立波.;3203861
由于英文水平有限，我对你的这些话理解起来有些困难，你现在可以用中文解释一下我是否理解有误？

你写的--when you forced ABS founctioning, the wheels were already locked, the stop distance would be OF COURSE longer on the same road condition, than didn’t. 这句话我认为不正确，因为即使我强行触发ABS工作，车轮抱死也仅限于开始的那一瞬间，之后在ABS的作用下车轮就不会再抱死。

我觉得老兄理解无误，哈哈。这不是英不英文的问题了，而是老兄对我的分析有不同看法。前面也说过，这个很正常，也无谓再说下去。我的意见还是那样，不管分析对错，我可以肯定地说，到了大马路上，紧急刹车abs起作用的时候，坚持踩紧刹车是正确做法，切勿松开尝试点刹。;)

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